Jeez, the Elizabeth hate was funny at first, and now it's downright brutal. Why the hell is she deserving of this much hate?
Like it or not, Elizabeth is a major supporting character, as well as relevant and fleshed out enough to warrant her opinion. Not to mention this situation is the most personal to HER after the twins. Remember, this is HER FIANCE we're talking about. So her pointing out the guy who straight up lied to her and manipulated her memories and feelings to suit his identity shift is "betrayal" now? Infallible logic there.
I personally love seeing her point of view. She is the one person who is closest to BOTH Ciels, and I love seeing her torn between her duty to protect the Queen's Guard Dog and her feelings for her beloved. It's ONE chapter that's allowed us insight to her POV.
For those of you who cannot stand her, get over yourself. She's been there since Volume 1, she's not just going to go away anytime soon. Ciel and Sebastian are still the stars of this series, and they're not just going to disappear because Lizzie got one chapter to herself. Okay? Okay. Now let's focus a little more on the important stuff. Like Bard's code and Bassy in cuffs ( ° ʖ °)
Um...no? People can hate her if they want, regardless of how long she's been there. People hated Mey Rin for a bit, people hate Grell, hell some people even hate Ciel, who's the damn main character. Being around since the beginning means nothing
Um...no? People can hate her if they want, regardless of how long she's been there. People hated Mey Rin for a bit, people hate Grell, hell some people even hate Ciel, who's the damn main character. Being ar... Maddy
What I meant by this post here is that I'm tired of people mindlessly hating on her because she interferes with their ships. I get it, Elizabeth has no place in your OTP, I can accept that, but...is that the only reason to shit all over her character when her motivations and actions are all justifiable?
Honestly, Elizabeth is one of those characters that just gets more and more interesting as the series progresses. First, she was a mindless airhead with good intentions, then its revealed that she's carrying a bunch of emotional baggage. I know she's no comparison to the twins in terms of trauma, but this pre-teenage girl was groomed from a young age to be R-Ciel, the Guard Dog's, shield; the innocent, beautiful, mindless fiance-stuff is a cover for the sake of R-Ciel not wanting to marry a strong woman. She put herself into a mindset to always be happy and cheerful regardless of her own feelings to please her to-be husband (O-Ciel at that point), something a lot of Victorian women were forced to do, and fell in love with the wrong boy. Now she's at a point where her motivations and her feelings don't match; should she do her duty and protect R-Ciel, or pursue feelings she can't be sure of with the twin who lied to her, O-Ciel? Here's a hint: If this were any other cliche romance drama, the girl follows her heart and lalalalala boring happy ending yaaaaaay rainbows and unicorns.
Elizabeth's actions are justified up to this point. Sure, she's not in the same high-stakes conflict between the twins, but then again, she's not the MAIN character. Her conflict fits her character and her place in the story, and it's unfair that people give her shit for being the backstabbing bitch who betrayed "the good guys" (<-- seriously, the words 'protagonists' and 'good' are not synonymous; OCiel and Seb are sick. They're good characters, not good people).
But then again, that's just my unpopular opinion. If you hate it, ignore me, because I can't force you to agree. I just think Lizzy gets too much hate. A little is fine, a little is perfectly serviceable, but this much.....clogs the topics with the same thing over and over.
If you made it this far, hope you're having a good day :) If you didn't, then you won't see me saying that ^ and it's your loss >:]
And you're only two weeks late ╮(￣▽￣)╭What I meant by this post here is that I'm tired of people mindlessly hating on her because she interferes with their ships. I get it, Elizabeth has no place in ... SakasamaNoChou
Lizzy isn't much better. By her own admission, she probably never really loved either of them. And yet, goes the path of playing victim. From what I've seen, she's incredibly concerned with security and is more than willing to delude herself to get it. It's annoying because she's shown the capability to be strong but then goes right back to whining. I don't care how much she wants Ciel to like her, you can't be both and then act like you did nothing wrong. She's similar to a gold digger, though she craves stability and possibly affection as opposed to money. The fact that she couldn't tell the difference despite "loving" Ciel romantically, either implies she could never tell the difference of her own accord and never truly loved Ciel or she knew and subconsciously suppressed it in order to maintain her position and the security that came with it. Granted, she was dealing with a lot of expectations and baggage, but so was OCiel, and to be honest, probably even RCiel.
Also, if her actions are justifiable so is OCiels. I highly doubt he wanted to replace his brother, and from the way he was talking its very likely he felt that was the only way for him to be taken seriously. He was also pretty aware that he would always be second best, and assumed [correctly] that people would likely be disappointed had they found out he survived and not his twin. I don't hate Elizabeth, but she's not a good person in my opinion. Maybe better than both Ciels and miles better than Sebastian, but she's not a completely justified character.
Lizzy isn't much better. By her own admission, she probably never really loved either of them. And yet, goes the path of playing victim. From what I've seen, she's incredibly concerned with security and is m... Maddy
See this right here? This right here is a smart, well-pieced-together response to my opinion. THIS is the kind of "Lizzy Hate" I'm fine with. Not the whole "blah blah Lizzy total bitch blah blah cute innocent Ciel and Sebbychan blah blah." I don't blame Lizzy for wanting affection and stability; I mean, who DOESN'T want that from your future husband, especially considering that's what she had from RCiel before? I think she was more willing to accept his "differences" and her doubts because when "Ciel" came back, he was very obviously in emotional pain as well as missing an eye. Who wouldn't be different after that kind of trauma? She admitted herself that she chalked up her doubts to coincidence and lied to herself. This was because she couldn't face the alternative-that her fiance was dead and his brother was lying to her. She's also more upset with herself for her willful ignorance and her disappointment with OCiel for surviving and not his brother. OCiel was right; people wouldn't have been happy with his return and not RCiel's, and Lizzy admits that. As for playing the victim, like I said, Lizzy's problems are nothing compared to the twins'. But that doesn't mean she can't feel confused. Victorian wives are supposed to love and submit to their husbands and families, nothing more. That was all Lizzy was raised to be in terms of personality. And she couldn't do that. So now what? She does the only other thing she was born to do: protect the Guard Dog. That is why she turned on OCiel, and that is why she stated that her love was a lie. Emotional and physical strength are two different things. She is allowed to be sad that things didn't turn out anything like the way they were planned for her. Just because she opened up to her brother about her troubles doesn't make her a victim. It's not like she threw herself on the stairs of the manor yelling "Woe is me!" in front of the crowd. And I never said OCiel wasn't justified in his actions; most of the things he does are either for the sake of keeping up the farce for reasons you mentioned or for the sake of the Queen. I said he and Seb weren't GOOD people. They're interesting and at least understandable, but not everything they do is good-samaritan material. Like I said, if you don't like my opinion, you don't have to agree. I'm fine with you hating Lizzy if you have a justified reason for doing so, which you obviously do. You're a cool person, I respect you. (=・ω・=)
Jeez, the Elizabeth hate was funny at first, and now it's downright brutal. Why the hell is she deserving of this much hate?
Like it or not, Elizabeth is a major supporting character, as well as relevant and fleshed out enough to warrant her opinion. Not to mention this situation is the most personal to HER after the twins. Remember, this is HER FIANCE we're talking about.
So her pointing out the guy who straight up lied to her and manipulated her memories and feelings to suit his identity shift is "betrayal" now? Infallible logic there.
I personally love seeing her point of view. She is the one person who is closest to BOTH Ciels, and I love seeing her torn between her duty to protect the Queen's Guard Dog and her feelings for her beloved. It's ONE chapter that's allowed us insight to her POV.
For those of you who cannot stand her, get over yourself. She's been there since Volume 1, she's not just going to go away anytime soon. Ciel and Sebastian are still the stars of this series, and they're not just going to disappear because Lizzie got one chapter to herself.
Okay? Okay. Now let's focus a little more on the important stuff. Like Bard's code and Bassy in cuffs ( ° ʖ °)
ugh your mind! I too am not a fan of the Lizzy hate
Um...no? People can hate her if they want, regardless of how long she's been there. People hated Mey Rin for a bit, people hate Grell, hell some people even hate Ciel, who's the damn main character. Being around since the beginning means nothing
I agree
And you're only two weeks late ╮(￣▽￣)╭
What I meant by this post here is that I'm tired of people mindlessly hating on her because she interferes with their ships. I get it, Elizabeth has no place in your OTP, I can accept that, but...is that the only reason to shit all over her character when her motivations and actions are all justifiable?
Honestly, Elizabeth is one of those characters that just gets more and more interesting as the series progresses. First, she was a mindless airhead with good intentions, then its revealed that she's carrying a bunch of emotional baggage. I know she's no comparison to the twins in terms of trauma, but this pre-teenage girl was groomed from a young age to be R-Ciel, the Guard Dog's, shield; the innocent, beautiful, mindless fiance-stuff is a cover for the sake of R-Ciel not wanting to marry a strong woman. She put herself into a mindset to always be happy and cheerful regardless of her own feelings to please her to-be husband (O-Ciel at that point), something a lot of Victorian women were forced to do, and fell in love with the wrong boy. Now she's at a point where her motivations and her feelings don't match; should she do her duty and protect R-Ciel, or pursue feelings she can't be sure of with the twin who lied to her, O-Ciel?
Here's a hint: If this were any other cliche romance drama, the girl follows her heart and lalalalala boring happy ending yaaaaaay rainbows and unicorns.
Elizabeth's actions are justified up to this point. Sure, she's not in the same high-stakes conflict between the twins, but then again, she's not the MAIN character. Her conflict fits her character and her place in the story, and it's unfair that people give her shit for being the backstabbing bitch who betrayed "the good guys" (<-- seriously, the words 'protagonists' and 'good' are not synonymous; OCiel and Seb are sick. They're good characters, not good people).
But then again, that's just my unpopular opinion. If you hate it, ignore me, because I can't force you to agree. I just think Lizzy gets too much hate. A little is fine, a little is perfectly serviceable, but this much.....clogs the topics with the same thing over and over.
If you made it this far, hope you're having a good day :)
If you didn't, then you won't see me saying that ^ and it's your loss >:]
Lizzy isn't much better. By her own admission, she probably never really loved either of them. And yet, goes the path of playing victim. From what I've seen, she's incredibly concerned with security and is more than willing to delude herself to get it. It's annoying because she's shown the capability to be strong but then goes right back to whining. I don't care how much she wants Ciel to like her, you can't be both and then act like you did nothing wrong. She's similar to a gold digger, though she craves stability and possibly affection as opposed to money. The fact that she couldn't tell the difference despite "loving" Ciel romantically, either implies she could never tell the difference of her own accord and never truly loved Ciel or she knew and subconsciously suppressed it in order to maintain her position and the security that came with it. Granted, she was dealing with a lot of expectations and baggage, but so was OCiel, and to be honest, probably even RCiel.
Also, if her actions are justifiable so is OCiels. I highly doubt he wanted to replace his brother, and from the way he was talking its very likely he felt that was the only way for him to be taken seriously. He was also pretty aware that he would always be second best, and assumed [correctly] that people would likely be disappointed had they found out he survived and not his twin. I don't hate Elizabeth, but she's not a good person in my opinion. Maybe better than both Ciels and miles better than Sebastian, but she's not a completely justified character.
See this right here? This right here is a smart, well-pieced-together response to my opinion. THIS is the kind of "Lizzy Hate" I'm fine with. Not the whole "blah blah Lizzy total bitch blah blah cute innocent Ciel and Sebbychan blah blah."
I don't blame Lizzy for wanting affection and stability; I mean, who DOESN'T want that from your future husband, especially considering that's what she had from RCiel before? I think she was more willing to accept his "differences" and her doubts because when "Ciel" came back, he was very obviously in emotional pain as well as missing an eye. Who wouldn't be different after that kind of trauma? She admitted herself that she chalked up her doubts to coincidence and lied to herself. This was because she couldn't face the alternative-that her fiance was dead and his brother was lying to her. She's also more upset with herself for her willful ignorance and her disappointment with OCiel for surviving and not his brother. OCiel was right; people wouldn't have been happy with his return and not RCiel's, and Lizzy admits that.
As for playing the victim, like I said, Lizzy's problems are nothing compared to the twins'. But that doesn't mean she can't feel confused. Victorian wives are supposed to love and submit to their husbands and families, nothing more. That was all Lizzy was raised to be in terms of personality. And she couldn't do that. So now what? She does the only other thing she was born to do: protect the Guard Dog. That is why she turned on OCiel, and that is why she stated that her love was a lie. Emotional and physical strength are two different things. She is allowed to be sad that things didn't turn out anything like the way they were planned for her. Just because she opened up to her brother about her troubles doesn't make her a victim. It's not like she threw herself on the stairs of the manor yelling "Woe is me!" in front of the crowd.
And I never said OCiel wasn't justified in his actions; most of the things he does are either for the sake of keeping up the farce for reasons you mentioned or for the sake of the Queen. I said he and Seb weren't GOOD people. They're interesting and at least understandable, but not everything they do is good-samaritan material.
Like I said, if you don't like my opinion, you don't have to agree. I'm fine with you hating Lizzy if you have a justified reason for doing so, which you obviously do. You're a cool person, I respect you. (=・ω・=)